(368 posts)
Nov 20, 2009 10:22 am
Interesing ukemi teaching techniques
Check out these interesting falling techniques. I'm not sure what to make of them. Any thoughts?
Interesing ukemi teaching techniques
Started by Sean Ashby · Nov 20, 2009 · 8 posts
(368 posts)
Nov 20, 2009 10:44 am
And this one...
(583 posts)
Nov 20, 2009 4:46 pm
beautiful ukemi work -- my only point of concern is the hand slapping what i consider to be early but with such low impact results results like we're seeing here i think its well worth investigating-- could add years to an ukes lifespan of play!
(368 posts)
Nov 20, 2009 6:30 pm
Yeah, at first I thought, No, uke's "reaching back" with the hand, which is what untrained people do and ends up getting the arm broken. But then I thought about our forward rolls, and how we lead out with the arm extended but we roll down the length of it to the shoulder, across the back, etc. It seems like they're doing much the same thing, only backwards. I dunno...
(1 posts)
Jun 3, 2010 12:38 pm
Here's a little more of the same...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx4GLiyPZz0
I think I'm digging this and feel myself wanting to try it... well... some of it anyway.
{NOTE: It's not your computer-- there is no audio, and the little loading image sometimes continually flickers through the video. Some type of error, I suppose.}
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx4GLiyPZz0
I think I'm digging this and feel myself wanting to try it... well... some of it anyway.
{NOTE: It's not your computer-- there is no audio, and the little loading image sometimes continually flickers through the video. Some type of error, I suppose.}
(20 posts)
Jun 3, 2010 8:29 pm
This certainly is interesting -- and I'm itching to go try it -- but the video's claim of starting beginners with this kind of fall worries me.
Ellis Amdur, in his ukemi video, makes the point that rolls are a luxury. They are the things you can choose to do when you have enough time and when you have enough space and when you have enough control. But falls are what you need to do automatically when you don't have the choice.
So when I see a roll (the second half of a roll, with a novel entry, but still a roll), I don't think 'beginner technique' -- I think 'luxury'. I agree with Nick that it could add years to uke's life, but only an uke that already has a well developed instinct to fall the "hard" way (pun intended). Otherwise they won't live long enough to benefit from the reduced wear and tear of sometimes being able to do these rolls. I think beginners need to be learning about energy dissipation from the first moment they fall, and their most ingrained reaction needs to be one that degrades well when there's too much force.
Of course nobody's going to take a full speed fall their first day, that's why we learn progressively. But the basic shape should consistent from day one. In other words, I would rather see "hard falls learned softly" than "soft falls". Otherwise the day comes when you want to mess around with shomen ate at full speed, or practice mune tori kata gatame with the foot captured, and suddenly it's not a question of tuning your falls to work at higher volume but rather a question of learning entirely new ways to fall.
(Yes, I know I've made other posts where I claim I can't go join a Judo class because my body dislikes the falls. Vertical falls with air do indeed disagree with me. But I still practice them, and they've saved me from rolling into the dojo's cast iron radiators plenty of times.)
Ellis Amdur, in his ukemi video, makes the point that rolls are a luxury. They are the things you can choose to do when you have enough time and when you have enough space and when you have enough control. But falls are what you need to do automatically when you don't have the choice.
So when I see a roll (the second half of a roll, with a novel entry, but still a roll), I don't think 'beginner technique' -- I think 'luxury'. I agree with Nick that it could add years to uke's life, but only an uke that already has a well developed instinct to fall the "hard" way (pun intended). Otherwise they won't live long enough to benefit from the reduced wear and tear of sometimes being able to do these rolls. I think beginners need to be learning about energy dissipation from the first moment they fall, and their most ingrained reaction needs to be one that degrades well when there's too much force.
Of course nobody's going to take a full speed fall their first day, that's why we learn progressively. But the basic shape should consistent from day one. In other words, I would rather see "hard falls learned softly" than "soft falls". Otherwise the day comes when you want to mess around with shomen ate at full speed, or practice mune tori kata gatame with the foot captured, and suddenly it's not a question of tuning your falls to work at higher volume but rather a question of learning entirely new ways to fall.
(Yes, I know I've made other posts where I claim I can't go join a Judo class because my body dislikes the falls. Vertical falls with air do indeed disagree with me. But I still practice them, and they've saved me from rolling into the dojo's cast iron radiators plenty of times.)
(583 posts)
Jun 6, 2010 4:04 pm
well put eric!
(106 posts)
Jun 15, 2010 12:24 pm
I think these look cool and make for showy aikido. I sat and watched the film several times, and I noticed how high they kick up their legs in order to get this fall.
Looking again, I don't think the fall is any softer then my back fall. It is just as soft - from a higher altitude. But why are they letting themselves take ukemi from radical heights? Personally, I think it so they can look cooler.
Looking again, I don't think the fall is any softer then my back fall. It is just as soft - from a higher altitude. But why are they letting themselves take ukemi from radical heights? Personally, I think it so they can look cooler.