Kaze Uta Budo Kai Forum Archive

We had a really great question come up during class last night, and I thought I'd bring it here to see what might be added. The question was, "What's the difference between o-goshi & uki-goshi?" On the surface these throws seem very similar.

I described it as a difference I see defined by ukemi. With o-goshi, uke rotates around your hip and his feet end up in front relative to where he started. In uki-goshi, uke tends to roll down our side like a log, so his head is in front relative to where he started.

The fulcrum of the hip is much more pronounced in o-goshi. We throw uke over our hip in o-goshi, but more of around our hip in uki-goshi.

Nick added that the hand placement is typically different as well. In o-goshi, tori's hand should be up between uke's shoulder blades, where in uki-goshi it tends to be cupping at his belt.

Uki-goshi is quicker (via a shorter route, not by speed/muscle/hazumi) and provides less of a chance of uke recovering. However, o-goshi is the "root throw" and should be the main training throw as it contains hane-goshi, harai-goshi, uki-goshi, and I believe tsurikomi-goshi & koshi-guruma as well.

What can you guys add to this? Which throw do you prefer?

One week Sean and I were talking about the way uki goshi looks compared to the other throws in kata. O goshi tends to have a parallel alligment (uke and tori's toes point the same direction, the glutes making contact with uke) while uki goshi is perpendicular (toes pointing perpendicular and the blade of the hip making contact with uke).

It makes sense looking at kata, but I rarely find the perpendicular arrangement in randori... maybe it's because I love harai and hane so much 😄

My perspective of uki goshi came from a clinic with Karl where he covered a handful of throws from kata. I don't know if I understood it correctly, or remember it correctly, but this was the impression I got.

O-goshi: crack of my ass is on uke's thigh, and I'm throwing the man down the line of his feet.
Uki goshi: my hips are more in square on his, or even in a "T" relationship, and I throw the man perpendicular to the line of his feet.

I don't know about hand placement. I had always assumed both were around the waist, but I could be horribly wrong about all of this...

This is way I tend to set it up:

Uke is walking forward. Just as his left foot is leaving the ground, I give a quick "on-off" tug on his lapel, making him step further than he wanted (you can set up a couple of things from that). As he comes forward, I slip my right arm around him instead of taking my normal step back (allowing his center to join to mine). As uke's right (trailing) foot makes it's exaggerated recovery, I follow that upward motion and just sort of bump his hips at the apogee, perpendicular to uke's feet line.

I've had pretty good success with it, and it's even kind of surprising how light it can feel. To me, uki goshi doesn't require as much hip motion as o-goshi, either it's just kind of a bump at the right moment.