Kaze Uta Budo Kai Forum Archive

I've noticed a lot of the rest of the judo world likes to do these two throws while advancing (trying to throw uke backward). I've only worked on these two going backwards, really (uke going forwards), with the exception of the Zdenek Matl version of kouchi. Is there any advice on throwing either of these advancing? Or is it just not as effective?

Interesting question.

I don't see advancing kouchi-gari very often. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen it outside the Zdenek Matl application that I love. To me, kouchi-gari is much like kosoto-gari or de-ashi-harai in that I attack the foot just as it's landed. With uke's weight shifting backward, I don't see kouchi-gari (as I perform it) as a very effective throw. I would be trying to pull uke's foot (which is about to launch into the stepping back phase, as the front foot) forward while he's about to be stepping back. I suppose this could be executed as a sacrifice throw, or a "hook & drive" type deal, but to me that isn't quality Judo.

Ouchi-gari, on the other hand, can be had in an advancing fashion. I'm not even going to pretend to be an expert on it though -- ouchi gari, in any of its various forms, is not a throw I'm particularly effective with.

One thing that comes to mind is how Moose demonstrated uchi mata during one of his visits to the dojo in the late 90's. Stand with your weight on your right foot. Now, rather than bring your left foot under your center, transfer weight into the left foot, then pickup the right foot.... well, we shortcut that process. Simply use your left foot to literally kick your right foot out from under yourself. This automatically lands your left foot under your center, motivates the right foot action, eliminates all the weight transfer time and doesn't induce a hopping into the air action. In this application, I believe you will tend to come in a bit more sideways, with your right hip leading the action into uke's center. This may result in uchi-mata if you're early in your timing, or if your sweeping leg arcs upward rather than staying in contact with the floor.

I actually asked Nick this question after class and he had some good/interesting things to say (as always). Maybe, just maybe, he'll post his thoughts here? 😄

Working from the idea that an advancing throw is the same as a retreating one, just with reversed steps, I've had some success with advancing Ouchi. The main focus for me has been that I'm not trying to throw uke straight backward, but to the back corner of the leg I'm attacking.

PS: the advancing ko sotos that I've seen recently are clumbsy, unartful and dumb-as-hell.

Yeah, basically, Nick was saying that we learn ko-uchi and o-uchi with uke advancing because that's the "big" version that contains all the other versions. He demonstrated ko-uchi going backwards, fowards, even sideways (same applies to o-uchi). But if you focus on doing the version of, say, o-uchi when uke is retreating (like the rest of the judo world) you don't really get a feel for all the others. (I think I'm repeating the essence of what he said correctly).

I agree with Chris, too, that when I'm throwing those going forward, I still look to throw into the back corners rather than straight back like the "traditional" folks.

Now ko-soto advancing, for me, seems to be something I pick up as a follow up to o-soto. Then again, I haven't played with advancing ko-soto on it's own, really, but since I've been thinking along these lines, I'm going to start. (I get it nicely while going backwards, though 😈 )

What am I talking about? I do too know how to get ko-soto while advancing. Doy...

Now ko-soto advancing, for me, seems to be something I pick up as a follow up to o-soto. Then again, I haven't played with advancing ko-soto on it's own, really, but since I've been thinking along these lines, I'm going to start. (I get it nicely while going backwards, though 😈 )

Here's Okano's entry, which is a little different-er than mine, but it's interesting to look at. I'm not sure why he does two "taps" with his foot (one to each of uke's feet). He does a deep step with his right foot (the sort of x+1 idea that Kyle talks about), then does a quick exchange of feet (as in kouchi), tilts the guy's posture to that back corner and does his little foot tap.



I, on the other hand, have just been stepping deep, but I'll step deep with my right foot over to uke's right foot (which means my right foot crosses my body to a degree, which may be a bad thing, I don't know), tilt the posture, and sweep with the left foot. So far, it's taken most folks by suprise...

Interesting. His entering foot action reminds me of Moose's uchi-mata, how the trailing foot kicks the lead foot into action.

Nidan Ko Soto?

Nidan Ko Soto?

I wondered that myself. I know Okano isn't a nidan (he's an old school judo brotha). I'm guessing that, because he taps both of uke's legs he's calling it "two step small outside reap" (ni being two, and dan meaning "step" which is one of that word's many definitions)? That's just a guess...

Nice tournament ko soto ippon.

Sean Ashby wrote:

Nidan Ko Soto?

I wondered that myself. I know Okano isn't a nidan (he's an old school judo brotha). I'm guessing that, because he taps both of uke's legs he's calling it "two step small outside reap" (ni being two, and dan meaning "step" which is one of that word's many definitions)? That's just a guess...

That's it. I wasn't paying attention to the video title. 😳

There's another entry to ko-soto that one could consider "advancing" although it comes from a circular beginning.

I start out by doing a run of the mill "step around double foot sweep". Uke is wise to me, and sort of pulls his right foot a little back as he's getting his balance back and turning to face me again. Consequently, I miss, totally whiffing, nothing but air, with my left foot. I keep the motion going, however, and plant my left foot right next to uke's left, all the while turning his shoulders with the old "driving the school bus" turn we use with advancing o-soto. Uke's posture is broken backwards and all it takes is a little ko-soto tap from my right foot.

(Once again, it seems to pop up as a follow-up throw).