Kaze Uta Budo Kai Forum Archive

I have this uncontrollable urge to organize and categorize, so I'm almost always looking for patterns and groups within techniques. As I've been thinking about the the body of judo throws and more specifically about teaching them, I started to think that you could maybe classify them into three levels of importance (maybe that's not the right word, but it will do for now).

Primary throws
These are the ones a student would need to practice the most often. They're fundamental, building block type throws. The higher reps the better. You might put throws like o-soto gari and o-goshi into this category.

Secondary throws
These throws you wouldn't really need to practice quite as often. They tend to be the kind of throw that, if you get the basic gist of most primary throws, these would follow suit pretty easily. Maybe uchi mata and ashi guruma go here.

Tertiary throws
These are throws that you may not really need to practice at all, per se. Once you understand the main throws, all you need is for someone to show it to you, let you do it a couple of times here and there, and that's really it. You just put it in your back pocket and know that it's there when you need it. You might put counter throws here (ushiro goshi, tsubame gaeshi) or maybe some sacrifice throws (tani otoshi, sumi gaeshi).

Now... I'm not entirely sure what would fit into these categories. Anyone have suggestions? Or is it silly to even think of them this way? Discuss...

Interesting idea, Sean. I've classify throws in a similar fashion. There are throws which are the fundamental building blocks. I tend to think about them in a kyu-grade/dan-grade paradigm. Some throws you just have to be around for a while to really get the gist of. Here's my opinion, and it's worth exactly what you paid for it.


The International Judo Federation (IJF) officially recognizes 66 different throwing techniques.

We can place all 19 of the sutemi-waza (sacrifice throws) into the third category. I'm not a big fan of sacrifice throws, simply because if it doesn't work you're up the creek minus a paddle. Now, I do believe it's important to study them at some point, and understand the concepts and mechanics of what is happening to create the throw. The same can be said for makikomi throws.

Most of the counter throws, (ie, -gaeshi, such as osoto-gari-gaeshi) are a waste of time. Learning a specific counter to a specific throw is really a waste of time, in my opinion. So, seven or eight additional throws can be lumped into the third category. There are, however, some counter throwing ideas that are very cool and definitely worth studying. So, I'd probably place them into the second category. Utsuri-goshi, ushiro-goshi and tsubame-gaeshi are definitely worthwhile.

So, now that we've covered all of that, we're largely left with the Gokyo no Waza minus sacrifice throws. Now it's just a matter of deciding what fits where.

Primary throws
Osoto-gari
Hiza-guruma
Ouchi-gari
Kouchi-gari
De-ashi-harai
Okuri-ashi-harai
Harai-tsurikomi-ashi
O-goshi
Hane-goshi
Harai-goshi
Uki-goshi
Tsurikomi-goshi
Ippon-seoi-nage
Sode-tsurikomi-goshi
Sukui-nage

Secondary throws
Tai-otoshi
Osoto-guruma
Osoto-otoshi
Ashi-guruma
O-guruma
Koshi-guruma
Sumi-otoshi
Uchi-mata
Seoi-otoshi
Uki-otoshi
Sasae-tsurikomi-ashi
Kosoto-gake
Kosoto-gari
Uchi-mata-sukashi


Now, we could discuss that throws like uki-otoshi maybe ought to be in the first category. After all, it's the first throw in Nage-no-Kata for a reason. But, it isn't one we use very often. There's some wiggle room to move a few of these back and forth between categories.

The primary throws are all easy for folks to pickup. Secondary throws, by and large, require some time on the floor to develop a sense of timing and body rise/fall. I'm not saying a green belt can't pick up ashi-guruma easily. We haven't really taught ashi-guruma formally until recent years, and folks tend to grasp the concept of a backwards hiza-guruma pretty quickly. There are, however, some entries into throwing that don't fall into the across-/on-/down-the-line paradigm that is critical for beginners.

So, there you have it. My $0.02 on the subject. Don't take this as anything more than opinion. There are lots of good opinions out there, and folks have their own particular reasons for doing things. This is based on my understanding of Judo, right now, at this moment. Subject to change at a moment's notice too.

Cool, cool. As I read your thoughts, a few other defining criteria came to mind.

1) The first I mentioned was the "building block" idea: understanding one throw gives you insight into similar "sibling" throws.

2) Another factor may be a given throw's likelihood of occurrence during randori: O-soto gari and hiza guruma tend to happen a lot, for example, just all on their own. On the other hand, kata guruma, not so much.

3) How easy is it for a beginner to learn and does it teach/reinforce fundamental principles (stepping on the line for example): I don't know that I would launch a white or green belt right into uchi mata or a sacrifice throw (some good ukemi skills are needed to take those anyway), but o-soto gari and o-goshi, they can wrap their mind around pretty quickly (and safely).

Interesting. Yeah, none of this should be set in stone, it's just the kind of thing I think about at night as I drift off to sleep 😄

Sounds like how the Gokyo sequence is arranged, with the simpler/basic techniques in the 1st-2nd group, the more advanced/sacrifices etc in the 4th-5th.