Kaze Uta Budo Kai Forum Archive

First, thanks to Damon Kornele, Cristian Lamson & Chris Wilson for going. We saw some really great stuff, and between the four of us we should be able to replicate a good chunk of it. I had a great time, saw some cool stuff, made some new friends and ate some good Chinese.

These are just my impressions and notes I took for myself. They are pretty raw and unorganized. I'm not saying we should abandon what we're doing. I'm not saying JW's stuff is wrong (it's really some very exciting stuff!). As you read this, keep an open mind and realize that it's OK to question things. There's more than one way to skin a cat (not felines; catfish)

JW and several of his guys are involved in law enforcement. It is possible the variations I'm seeing are a direct result of their use of Aikido in a law enforcement setting. JW has a neat sense of technique, from a tactical and control perspective.

The thoughts & emphasis on control and technique termination really made me think about Moose's "Litany of Judo". For those who are unfamiliar with this:

• Kuzushi starts when you do something that causes your opponent to take a step that he would not normally have taken, to give you a moment in time to gain entry. For example, using your collar hand grip to pull uke’s shoulder in front of his foot, causing him to step.[/*:m:1fhs6qr0]
  
• Kuzushi ends when we start to make our entry, or start tsukuri. Tsukuri stops at the execution point of the throw, at the point where we have gained control.[/*:m:1fhs6qr0]
  
• Kake begins at the point when you have control. Kake ends when your opponent is on the ground.[/*:m:1fhs6qr0]

Tomiki was a Judo master before Kano sent him to visit Ueshiba and look at Aikido. In fact, according to the JAA website, Tomiki was Kano's top Judo student. As we worked yesterday the Aikido took on sensations of Judo, with the control existing until uke was completely on the ground.

A choke might be called a "lateral vascular restraint technique" 😂

While we emphasize a light grip, other guys are playing with a much stiffer, stronger grip. I find that the stronger grip demands I adhere to principle, especially cocking the wrist as the first part of the technique. The stronger grip must also fail along a prescribed line, while the lighter grip has a larger window of opportunity for technique to work.

There is a lot of focus on releases 1-4. The other thing that I find tremendously interesting is the recognition of the relationships of releases far outside their normal context. Releases work regardless of where your hand is positioned. Your elbow can be bent, you hand against your chest. Now, is it palm toward or palm away (i.e., palm up/down)? Is uke grabbing the same side or cross side? There are 4 releases, and based on these two variables you have one solution.

The original 17 was broken into sections, each with its own emphasis. For example, 6-10 are focused on elbow control, while 11-14 are focused on wrist control. When you really emphasize the control point of each one of these, kata has a much different feeling. Above all, think about maintaining absolute control of your partner completely through the technique.

Work releases, then execute the entire 17 from the completion of the release. They're all available.

When pinning an armbar technique with uke prone, tori's elbow hand must be in his center. By being in the center, it is the apex of a triangle with the feet.

The human body is made of opposing muscle groups. Push or pull are the only two options.

The entries for #8 (hiki-taoshi), #9 (ude-hineri), #14 (shiho-nage), #15 (mae-otoshi), #16 (sumi otoshi) and #17 (hiki otoshi) are all different than our current form. The butterfly grip engages the hand, then the stepping action occurs. This really gets uke in a bad way. It is a shearing action more reminiscent of #10 (waki-gatame). The eye threat in #8 is absent, and the wrist control on #9 is very, very obvious -- it's ude-hineri for a reason.

As uke, it is unwise to just fall for your partner. We should be reinforcing our partner's skills, and falling for them when they don't quite have it right isn't necessarily a good idea, as it builds a false confidence. If you go to the gun range and shoot, telling yourself every round was a bullseye when it wasn't, you have a false sense of security. This is the same kind of thing. Our partner should have true confidence, and making them throw correctly builds this, as well as proper technique.

Eye contact is really important (duh!). JW uses eye contact as a way to induce stress during practice. I found this concept to be quite interesting. Normally, I look at my partner's eyes (sometimes their feet or such as I try to correct issues with technique) but as I think about it, intent has been largely absent. I know when I do kata I get "the look", but in normal practice I don't. Looking your partner in the eye, and thinking those nasty, mean thoughts throughout the engagement put the subconscious on extreme alert. I found this stimulated the adrenal response a little, and I must play with it a bit more. Obviously, not appropriate for all ages, viewer discretion is advised.

In Judo, I find our hands are largely absent. We focus so much on the center and the feet that we use our hands very little. This is really great -- we have some serious, serious Judo without hands. But sometimes, you want that little extra and that's where hands come in. To do this, your hands must be active & engaged, not a couple of hooks hanging onto a guy. The feet & center motivate everything. Once the feet achieve their natural terminus, the hands can be utilized to continue the motion a small distance. Try left side okuri-ashi-harai. As you sweep, let your foot achieve its normal action, then pull your collar hand grip to your shoulder. Simple.

I found a few issues with technique I need to address. The first is that I step back too often. I'm not sure if this is related to our concept of maintaining maai. JW and his guys do techniques at maai, then slip in tight to uke. This concept is seen everywhere, with releases being the first place I notice a large change. The rotation around uke's grip is the same, it's just they emphasize being tight behind uke's arm at the finish, whereas we tend to have open space between us. Part of it is the potential for a kick to deliver damage at distance, whereas it is a reduced risk in close. Again, a law enforcement perspective but very valid point of view.

The second thing was that I have a pesky habit of engaging my second hand when I don't necessarily need to. Cristian & Damon experienced this as well, as JW would take advantage of this second hand coming into play. Most often, I see this occurring where the free hand comes to the elbow. Most likely, this is presumed to be for control of uke's elbow. JW says to keep things in reserve. In other words, it's not a problem until it becomes a problem. By engaging the elbow, even though it isn't a threat, we take away our ability to engage this second hand in other ways without first disengaging the elbow. This frustrated me throughout the day, mainly because I do it without even thinking about it or recognizing that I do it.

too cool -- very thought provoking!-- i look forward to catching a glimpse of what you all pick up this week --

I remember, back in the day at the older dojo on I-40, I used to go to noon classes a lot while I was in college. There was a period when a few cops would attend those and Chuck used to like going into some of the more "practical" aspects of using aikido for their benefit (not always "kata" stuff, if you know what I mean). It was very enlightening!

It almost seems like there's two different mind-sets when it comes to aikido. I mean the principles are the same, the techniques are the same, and all that, but the strategy (for lack of a better word) seems slightly variable. For someone in law enforcement (prison guards, too, etc.) they have to think more in terms of "control and subdue" whereas everyday folk (particularly those with a smaller build or limited physical ability) tend to think more in terms of "survive and escape."

In other words, the law enforcement guys can't just run away; they have to calm the guy down, get him in cuffs or back in his cell or whatever, so they have to be all over him. A regular Joe, however, walking down the street who's grabbed by a big bad brute probably just wants to move, survive, and get the heck out of there.

Not that there's anything wrong with either, to me anyway. But it's funny that this whole subject comes up, because I've always been of the "survive and escape" mind set, which I always thought required a "light" and "froo froo" approach (anybody remember Chuck's "aikido fairy" pink gi?). But I've noticed lately that there's actually a lot of potential for aikido to offer much more in terms of control. It's not that you have to be... I don't know, "aggressive" or certainly not STRONG, but more of... sort of "owning" the guy. Does that make any sense? Anyway, it's interesting, I think!

Sean--

Well put. You found a way to put into words what I have had running thru my head trying to figure out how to say. (I don't know if I got the quote text to work or not.)

It almost seems like there's two different mind-sets when it comes to aikido. I mean the principles are the same, the techniques are the same, and all that, but the strategy (for lack of a better word) seems slightly variable. For someone in law enforcement (prison guards, too, etc.) they have to think more in terms of "control and subdue" whereas everyday folk (particularly those with a smaller build or limited physical ability) tend to think more in terms of "survive and escape."

In other words, the law enforcement guys can't just run away; they have to calm the guy down, get him in cuffs or back in his cell or whatever, so they have to be all over him. A regular Joe, however, walking down the street who's grabbed by a big bad brute probably just wants to move, survive, and get the heck out of there.

It sounds like JW is still doing Merit Stephens basic sytem for law enfocement and correctional officers.Jw's eyes have always been scary.

I've seen some of the Merit Stephens systems from Nick, and it's pretty neat. JW is doing the regular 17, just with a few different emphasis points.

I wasnt able to make the playday but I think I got the short version when I was down for the OKC playday. JW tore my butt up for a couple of hours. He is extremely informative and gave me MANY things to take back and work on. I especially like the lesson he gave me on releases.. sounds very similar to what you learned at the playday, it gave me a whole new perspective on releases, their relationships, and how to use them in rondori.

I dont even do Judo, but JW was able to teach me several Judo techniques in a very short time....

I could go on and on... the man is a wealth of knowledge....

Agreed on the releases aspect. He really gave me something to think about in terms of defining which releases to use based on the grips and location of those grips, and how they are applied in a randori scenario. Odd that I never thought before that by grabbing both wrists, you really have your option of two releases depending on how Uke is moving. It was definitely eye opening for me.

I had a great time and thanks Kyle for letting me join up last minute!

These are comments from the backseat, okay? First there are really not two minds or mentalities to aikido, but there are two simple presumptions. The first presumption is that Uke is being aggressive and has started his off balance by his intent and actions. The second presumption is uke is being passively aggressive and requires tory to do something to create the balance break. In the first presumption, space is available as two bodies revolve around each other until one body becomes the dominant center or the controlling body that will drive the technique to its terminus. The second presumption requires that space between the two bodies be minimized because, unlike in the first presumption where two bodies are in motion, neither of the two bodies are in motion, but both are trying to occupy the same space. In either case, the principles that would be applied are the same. The reason for the stronger grips is for training purposes. If we are teaching someone to do a technique, we must help them by being deliberate in our movements. If our grips are always so light, kohai may develop a false sense of confidence when his/her techniques work. On the other hand, if the grip is more firm (in the beginning) kohai can see if his/her technique is really effective or not. Regarding eye contact, it is not just the intimidation point of view that is important. Something that seems often overlooked is physiologically the body naturally aligns itself to whatever or wherever the mind's attention is focused. Further, by making eye contact, that causes the head to remain upright and focused on uke and not one uke's hands or feet. If you will try an exercise with someone while pushing each other while one has his/her head down you will find that it is easy to move the person who has their head down with ease, but the moment the person raises their head and looks at you, their body alignment automatically corrects itself and they become difficult to manipulate...try it.

well said-- good points George

Just wanted to thank you guys for coming down to the Lawton playday. All of you are really great guys and we all enjoyed the training. All of you bring a lot to the table and it is a blessing to spend time with you on and off the mat. Daniel and I agreed that each of you have far surpassed us with your training skills when we were at your time in grade. Keep up the great work and we love and appreciate all of you.