The other hand

Started by Sean Ashby · Jun 25, 2009 · 8 posts

(368 posts)
The other hand
Glen brought this up in class last night, but I didn't get a chance to hear his thoughts. I've actually been ponderizing about it myself, so I'll put the question out there for ya'lls and see what we get 😄

During the walking kata, what's your "other" hand doing (you know, the one that's not doing the main action) and why?
(161 posts)
during kata I have always learned that real kata is only real if you imagine an attacker and your response to the attack ...the other hand is protecting the groin or the body in some fashion or perhaps ready to assist to in case of a reaction from uke....it is alive and ready protecting and if necessary ready to strike...
(1808 posts)
I try to have the wrist engaged in the same action as the "active" hand. This forces all the musculature of the back to engage cooperatively -- all pushing or all pulling. If you only have one wrist cocked, you're only using half your back muscles.
(368 posts)
Also, what are your hands doing in between movements? Do they go back to your sides limply and then re-engage when the next movement starts? Or are you keeping them engaged the whole time?
(1808 posts)
I like to let everything go completely relaxed & neutral between actions (the even numbers typically). This allows me to work on springing into action from a natural state.
(134 posts)
As Kyle said, the principle is to engage both sides of the back muscles in the same way. So for example when the left hand is concave, elbows in, as in the underhand push, the right hand mirrors that movement, only smaller. The trailing hand moves in the same configuration, but low and in front of the hips rather than extended. It is in position to parry a kick or low strike, and supports the structure and musculature. When stepping back, both hands relax in reverse order as they engaged, as they return to neutral. This applies to all the hand pushes and turns. Even in the first three steps, you can energize and disengage the hands in coordination with the same-side foot movement. In the hip switch, I find my hand does not want to engage on the forward “setup” step, but when turning back at the end of the movement, my off-hand matches the underhand curl, finishing in “tai no henka” position with both palms turned upwards in musubi/projection.

The inside-outside turn, “Pet the dragon”, does not return the hand to neutral in between the irimi-nage and gyakugamae-ate steps. The return movement maintains full engagement (“ki hand”) and scoops into the center, gathering energy for the next step. [About 15 years ago, the irimi-nage turning step changed to a straight forward push with the edge of the hand up (like a forward version of gedan-ate). I am not sure why this was changed, but it seems like an invitation for tenkai-kote-hineri. The inside-turning irimi-nage step does not appear elsewhere, and matches the actual name of the movement.]
(7 posts)
Hi guys.
I noticed in hand randori, we sometimes pay attention to only one hand while our partner is paying attention to the one we are not or both.
I remembered from many years ago someone gave a talk/suggestion that we should be engaging both hands during the walk. Did not catch any details or elaboration. I also never heard any talk about the "proper" use of the other hand in the "formal" walking kata.

I am merely using/controlling/coordinating the secondary hand with the primary hand. I have come up with some details, but my motive is just to be aware of both hands. Secondly, I do not let my hands flop around too much. Let Kyle or some other judo guy get a slight hold of a floppy hand while you are moving sideways, and he can snap a sumi-otoshi like nothing. My suggestion, don't let your hands flop like pendulums.

The basic principle of the movement of the secondary hand is just to "coordinate" with the primary hand. If the primary is pushing, push with the secondary, just keeping it closer to the body. If the primary is lifting, lift with the secondary, just keeping closer in to the body just enough to feel the left and right stomach or back muscles engaged symmetrically. So with every move in the kata, I am engaging both hands together.

However, I would not be too fixated on "locking" them together in the pushing/pulling thing. I do remember that a lot of the times in hand randori, the hands have to move independently. Like during hand offs or hand separations.
Hope that was not too detailed. See you on the mat.
(368 posts)
Cool. Love to hear everybody's thoughts. I sort of gravitated to the idea of having both hands engaging in the same direction as well over the years, to solidify the body structure, to get in the habit of always having the "other" hand ready to engage, pass the hand off, etc.

I have also noticed that I have both hands in the same direction when I move in a straight line (both hands cocked and palms out if I'm going forward, both wrists curling down and back if I'm moving backwards), but when I turn (not necessarily in the walking kata, but in general), I tend to have one wrist pushing and the other curling, which creates an asymmetrical relationship in my muscular structure, which in turn seems to prompt a natural turn.

I think of tenchi nage (heaven and earth), where my low hand in curling toward the side where I'm turning, and the far hand (the higher one) is pushing. In the Big 10 guruma throws, my left hand which is on the wrist in essentially curled down, while my right hand (whether on the neck, upper arm, or below the elbow) is in a pushing mode, even if it's fingers down. Aiki nage, same thing: the hand around uke's neck is in a pushing mode, but the far hand (which I tend to put in the small of uke's back) is in a curling mode. Turns me like a rudder!