Kaze Uta Budo Kai Forum Archive

Just got the dvd this week and see that there are very applicable and practical aspects of this kata which I would like to see if there are any aikidokas or judokas interested in training it???

I have reviewed and practiced several systems of ground survival for non grapplers and grapplers {non sport) and have found that both the gracie combatives and krav maga have some very useful and practical approaches. I think it would be worth it for those that want to train for this type of situation to look into these arts. What we have been exposed to in class is very practical and useful and adding some of the approaches and techniques from these arts will only make us better prepared in giving us options...Perhaps we can start up on friday eve class and practice the goshin and ground survival???

Which DVD did you get?

I can tell you there was a substantial difference in the techniques between when Miyake taught here in the late 90's versus a couple of years ago. The kata has underwent some drastic changes in a decade, and some were not really for the better in my opinion.

We are switching from Nage-no-kata to Goshin-Jutsu for promotional requirements in Judo. We are still ironing out the details regarding what techniques for which rank and such.

John Belardo wrote:I have reviewed and practiced several systems of ground survival for non grapplers and grapplers {non sport) and have found that both the gracie combatives and krav maga have some very useful and practical approaches. I think it would be worth it for those that want to train for this type of situation to look into these arts. What we have been exposed to in class is very practical and useful and adding some of the approaches and techniques from these arts will only make us better prepared in giving us options...Perhaps we can start up on friday eve class and practice the goshin and ground survival???

If you're really interested in ground self-defense, there are two avenues that come to mind. The first is to become a grappler -- come to Judo, we'd love to have you. The second is to look at the Aikido self-defense survival groundwork that has been developed over the years. The approach is very simple & straightforward.

Kyle Sloan wrote:We are switching from Nage-no-kata to Goshin-Jutsu for promotional requirements in Judo. We are still ironing out the details regarding what techniques for which rank and such.

Outstanding! I can see that as maintaining hte soft approach to judo but moving back toward the Hamarejudo that Tomiki described.

Nagenokata still has some great material in it, but Goshin Jitsu would be a better approach! Whoo! You've got me excited just mentioning it.

If you are looking to replace katamenokata too (even more useless than nagenokata) then you might consider using kimenokata in addition to goshinjitsu. Good material, kimenokata has a suwari component (which lends at least a little to newaza) and lots of repetition of basic principle in various contexts.

P

Kyle Sloan wrote:I can tell you there was a substantial difference in the techniques between when Miyake taught here in the late 90's versus a couple of years ago. The kata has underwent some drastic changes in a decade, and some were not really for the better in my opinion.

I didnt get to the new goshinjitsu clinics - could you expand some more about your take on the changes?

P

There are some very juicy things that live in every kata. The downside is that in some cases it takes significant study and repetition to start seeing some of those concepts. Derek Hall and I studied Nage-no-kata for many months, initially working on blocking in and refining the moves, but later it became a research project.

I think there's some very valuable stuff in Nage-no-kata. I don't think most people are willing to put in the hours to find it. Things have to really yank your crank, boil your crawfish, float your boat, etc. before you really go after it. Just my $0.02.

I think Goshin Jutsu and Kime-no-kata have some neat ideas. Lots of immobilization techniques in both.

It's also interesting to perform Goshin from two different paradigms. If you go for a soft feel, it is very different than if you go for a hard feel. I think both should be studied, as it offers insight into power as well as how power can hamper fluid movement.

Patrick Parker wrote:

Kyle Sloan wrote:I can tell you there was a substantial difference in the techniques between when Miyake taught here in the late 90's versus a couple of years ago. The kata has underwent some drastic changes in a decade, and some were not really for the better in my opinion.

I didnt get to the new goshinjitsu clinics - could you expand some more about your take on the changes?

P

To me, the kata was changed for aesthetics and presentation qualities. To me it's a self-defense kata, and realism should take priority over pretty. We watched a video of the new form of Goshin being performed, and it seems like pretty much everyone at the first session was in disbelief at the transformation. We opted to go with realism over pretty as we worked through the material over the course of the week. I can't remember all of the examples, but it seems to me like the weapons section was really watered down substantially. There were several times people commented that the technique, as it was demonstrated on film, could be countered -- not something I want for a self-defense kata.

Kyle Sloan wrote:We are switching from Nage-no-kata to Goshin-Jutsu for promotional requirements in Judo. We are still ironing out the details regarding what techniques for which rank and such.

Any progress on this interesting idea?

Patrick Parker wrote:

Kyle Sloan wrote:We are switching from Nage-no-kata to Goshin-Jutsu for promotional requirements in Judo. We are still ironing out the details regarding what techniques for which rank and such.

Any progress on this interesting idea?

No specifics as of yet. We've been distracted by shiny things like cameras & computers & video production.

What? No Goshin-Jutsu video yet? Slacker!!! 😀

John, what video are you referring to? The only Goshin Jutsu video on Amazon is not available.

I believe this is the video in question. BudoVideos.com is going to be your best bet.

Kodokan DVD Goshin Jutsu

Hi Kyle
Would love to train the Goshin Jiujitsu if you have the time....Is it possible to have it once a month or perhaps for once a week for one month or maybe you do a seminar for a half day ? I think if you and Nick and other higher instructors can offer this it would certainly be received well...I am going to place my order with budo.com as you mentioned in your last message...thanks...

I have a couple of ideas I want to run past Nick. One of the clubs (Vero Beach Aikido) is actually teaching Goshin Jutsu as a beginner's part of the cirriculum, and then moving into regular Aikido material from there. It's an interesting idea. I've been tempted to do some on Tuesday & Thursday nights between Aikido & Judo.

I visited the Vero Beach Dojo several years ago and shared with them the gun defenses I have learned from the Krav Maga and haganah and other self defense seminars I have attended and I was well received and had a great time. They teach the curriculum for beginners and they post it outside the entrance to the gym for all to see. The good folks there said it was an excellent way to introduce people to the concepts of aikido with practical short courses on self defense ( several classes) that everyone can learn and with some of the participants developing an interest to go further into becoming students of aikido....Looking foward to your ideas on the classes!!!
Many thanks

The Goshin video is sold out!!! do you have any alternatives ????

found this Goshin Jitsu video on youtube....what are your thoughts?