Kaze Uta Budo Kai Forum Archive

Sean Ashby wrote:...I suppose we have to look for other reasons for wearing hakama, or any of it, really. What does it do for our practice? our mindset? And those may vary, and be very personal. I have mine, but they may not be everyone's.

I certainly agree with this. The reasons for doing hakama or not can be very personal and difficult to talk about.

I personally hate the hakama. We wore hakama regularly for a couple of years and found them to be hot, uncomfortable, and inconvenient. We didn't perceive any benefits so we stopped. As often as not we wear shorts and teeshirts (or when it's cold, sweatsuits under our gis.)

Notice, I'm not accusing y'all of "playing dress up." It's cool with me if y'all wear them or not. But I thought I'd respond to a couple o things y'all mentioned in this thread.

Eric started it out referencing Nick talking about how we're perceived by other artists. I personally think that the hakama is detrimental to our perception. It is seen as being "dress-up", silly, and pretentious. Perhaps that is just the perception of the ignorant, but I think that perception does exist out there. It seems to me that so far as "dress up" goes, the candy stripe belt is more widely acceptable than the hakama (though i'll readily admit that it's not as cool as the black belt).

Regarding Eric's point that it looks better on film because it hides awkward human stepping... I can't think of a better reason not to wear the thing. I'd rather not hide my mistakes - makes them harder to fix. Also, as it hides mistakes it also hides your instruction from your students.

again, y'all are all cool with me whether you do or dont. I just thought I'd add to the convo...

Patrick Parker wrote:Eric started it out referencing Nick talking about how we're perceived by other artists. I personally think that the hakama is detrimental to our perception. It is seen as being "dress-up", silly, and pretentious. Perhaps that is just the perception of the ignorant, but I think that perception does exist out there. It seems to me that so far as "dress up" goes, the candy stripe belt is more widely acceptable than the hakama (though i'll readily admit that it's not as cool as the black belt).

Regarding Eric's point that it looks better on film because it hides awkward human stepping... I can't think of a better reason not to wear the thing. I'd rather not hide my mistakes - makes them harder to fix. Also, as it hides mistakes it also hides your instruction from your students.

It depends on who's perceiving. Among the koryu crowd, you look weird NOT wearing one. Actually in their terms, you are just wrong (the nail that sticks out). Karate people tend to see a hakama as pretentious, just like the candy stripe belt which is a Judo thing. When in Rome...

I wear hakama on Saturdays because I do Iaido and Jodo before Aikido and usually don't change uniforms. If there's any chance I'm going to do Judo, no hakama because it invariably rips. I do find myself tucking the sides up into the straps when teaching so people can see my feet. Makes me look like I'm wading in a rice paddy. I see the hakama as irrelevant in terms of what you are teaching, but I completely agree with Pat that hiding mistakes, especially from yourself, is a negative consequence.

It is seen as being "dress-up", silly, and pretentious.

I've really only run into that attitiude from one source...perhaps you have some other reference points?

the candy stripe belt is more widely acceptable than the hakama

Intersting Pat-- granted it is common in judo and karate and some jujustsu systems, but in specifically Aikido circles outside of Fugakukai and its progeny, i find it very very rare-- in the wider sphere, I can think of only three instances of photos or films of aikido/aikijujisu people that have red and white as the dress code-- one french aikijitsu teacher in the 80's -- forgot his name, one shot of S. Yamada in the 60's, and Higashi in the 90's--I've yet to see anything with Tomiki or Miyake of any other of the JAA folks wearing one-- nor do any of the other major aiki branches as far as i can tell --though Mochizuki or his son did have a blue and white one i think
As to the acceptance of hakama as aiki wear in general -- it seems ubquitious to me, a quick glace through the AJ photo collection shows hakamas are the common denominator of fashion

RE: the hakama - Besides the one source that I guess you and I have in common, I have seen numerous people, high-ranked, low-ranked, and no-ranked in arts as varied as karate, jujitsu, FMA, BJJ, MMA, and boxing express negative opinions ranging from "dress-up" to "impractical" to "sucks". I've had new students express surprise and relief that we were not those "hakama-wearing guys"

I'll give you that it is pretty much standard practice in much of aikikai (though I've seen segments of them that have given it up)

RE: the candy striped belt. Sorry - I thought we were talking about other arts' perceptions of us - the candy-striped belt is commonly accepted (as you say) in karate, jujitsu, and judo (moreso than the hakama). It certainly is uncommon in aikido.

interesting topic for discussion. There is certainly something to be said for the aesthetic purity of the dark hakama in the pristine, white dojo. But something I've been contemplating lately is I think it might be a good thing if aikido would grow out of the dojo (ie temple) into an art that could be practiced in parks with people wearing street clothes and wandering into and out of lessons with multiple masters like CIMA. maybe that sounds nuts. Maybe it's a bad idea, but I've been pondering it lately anyway.

Patrick Parker wrote:But something I've been contemplating lately is I think it might be a good thing if aikido would grow out of the dojo (ie temple) into an art that could be practiced in parks with people wearing street clothes and wandering into and out of lessons with multiple masters like CIMA. maybe that sounds nuts. Maybe it's a bad idea, but I've been pondering it lately anyway.

I know next to nothing about the Chinese martial arts, but it seems like I've seen a lot of footage lately of folks there practicing in parks and outside with everyday clothes on. I wonder if they've sort of drifted away from their own traditional attire as well?

Ok, but is there significance in the different colors?

Black, blue, red white,... then you get into the crazy colored patterns...

I just May Tie-dye mine first, so guys like Dave Nguyen don't tell me I am wearing girls hakama because it's blue... I think I have only worn it three or four times now... good thing someone put up a video showing how to wear it.... (note to self the board goes in back..it is not a girdle)

no significance to the colors that i've ever heard of--
in the park i prefer sweats and a t-shirt--

in the dojo i really dont seem much difference in dressing up in japanese underwear or japanese formal wear-- dressing up either way ya cut it

Aikido in the park? Surprise surprise.... we have a video!



In the two months the weather here doesn't melt your face off we hit the botanical gardens as often as we can. The different environment changes my movements. Also not having padded floors changes the approach too.


As to Jeff's questions about girly colors. Every art is different. In kendo at the school level boys wore blue, girls white. A lot of aikido folk think white hakama is for ueshiba only. The red hakama is just plain ugly. I have never seen a budo man wear one, but I sometimes saw them in street festivals in Japan. Funny you mention the red hakama Jeff, because I thought about buying one just to wear when I visit your dojo. Nothing will beat the Michael Jackson coat I had last year. You should have seen the faces on those army guys that train at Jeff's place!

As an interesting note, almost every film I have seen of Kano - he wears his hakama to teach Judo.

Jack Bieler wrote:
The koshita is designed to straighten your posture. If you can slump in a hakama, it's probably not tied tight enough. 😂

That's no lie!

I have to admit, I blew it right out of the gate. I'll try to do it Thursday night.

Sean posted the neat video above of the guy tying his hakama, so I have to ask how everybody else is doing it. Do you wear your obi or not? Do you like tying the front first (as in the video), or the back? I'm not a fan of having a knot in back -- might be great for kendo, but not for Aikido.

Over the years, I've worn my obi with the hakama. I tie the back first, and those laces/strings are next to my gi -- when you pull the front up to tie they are concealed. I might experiment without the obi, as it looks like the kendo guy is getting a really nice finish on his.

Kyle Sloan wrote: Sean posted the neat video above of the guy tying his hakama, so I have to ask how everybody else is doing it. Do you wear your obi or not? Do you like tying the front first (as in the video), or the back? I'm not a fan of having a knot in back -- might be great for kendo, but not for Aikido.

Over the years, I've worn my obi with the hakama. I tie the back first, and those laces/strings are next to my gi -- when you pull the front up to tie they are concealed. I might experiment without the obi, as it looks like the kendo guy is getting a really nice finish on his.

Some of you out there might know better, but from what I understand, many of the koryu arts like kendo, and traditional jodo don't were an obi at all, and wear the keikogi (navy blue top). Iaido folks wear a more traditional obi (thinner material, longer, broader, wraps around a bunch of times and the knot goes in the back, I believe). As far as I know, the majority of aikido folks always wear a judo style obi (knot in front) under their hakama. I would've posted one of those videos, but like I said, they're not always clear and easy to see what's going on. I'm not positive, but I think kyudo (archery) and naginata (spear) wear a thinner white top (sometimes navy) and black hakama, but a traditional style obi. So, it varies.

Looks like the naginata folks tend to tie theirs back-first, as well, so you could do it that way. Searching YouTube will get you a number of different ways.

As for the red hakama, so far I've only seen it on special occasions, ceremonies, festivals, etc. but never in any budo scenario, unless it was on a guy that I was pretty sure was of the "Rex Kwon Do" variety.

Now FOLDING the hakama seems to be pretty universal. There's a PDF on the Windsong site for that:

http://www.windsongdojo.com/info/fold_hakama.pdf

For Iaido, you have a "kaku-obi" (holding belt) which is extra wide to secure the sword. You have to tie the knot in back, but you can make it flat, and there are several ways. Still, not comfortable for falls. For Aikido, I tie the belt in front (tightly) and avoid criss-cross in the back.

I was taught that the back flap is for "emergency access," ie, when bodily needs arise. So we center the middle pleat at the top of the belt in front, run the front straps around the back, cross in front, and tie in the back. Then position the koshita, bring the straps to the front, and tie all the straps together into a square knot. (There is an easy formal knot that I will tie for special occasions, but I have been informed that it is never used for Eishin-ryu Iaido. I have read that the ZNKR has gone back to the square knot as well.)

Note also that kendo tops have the slit in the back. With judogi, the slits are on the sides and sometimes reveal your boxers or bare legs, somewhat spoiling the dignified effect....

Jack Bieler wrote:There is an easy formal knot that I will tie for special occasions, but I have been informed that it is never used for Eishin-ryu Iaido. I have read that the ZNKR has gone back to the square knot as well.

When I was first shown how to put on hakama by a Ueshiba guy many, many years ago, and he showed me the "bow tie" finish on the front. Since then, I have learned that, yeah, that's a special occasion deal (oops!), and otherwise a square not is the common method.

My thing is, what to do with the remaining straps? I've seen a couple of guys in the dressing room getting ready for Iaido just sort of wrap/tuck them into the himo on the sides. That right? I don't have a lot left over since my big ol' belly takes up more room than the average Japanese fellow, so I can't make it far 🙂

At last, the red hakama in action. Red gi too. Oh so stylish....or maybe not. sadly you have to wait a minute into the film before the glorious red hakama is revealed.

Wow, that's a lot of red. I like the baton at the 4:30 mark. Must of ordered it from Christy's Toy Box.

Sean Ashby wrote:My thing is, what to do with the remaining straps? I've seen a couple of guys in the dressing room getting ready for Iaido just sort of wrap/tuck them into the himo on the sides. That right? I don't have a lot left over since my big ol' belly takes up more room than the average Japanese fellow, so I can't make it far 🙂

Being one of them iaido guys, I wrap/tuck them into the himo... Wrapping a couple of times is probably the preference.

OK I took a few pictures to PROVE.. that Gail and I met at least day 1 off the challenge... (5th time I have ever worn it and I still don't like it.

Eric Pearson wrote:At last, the red hakama in action. Red gi too. Oh so stylish....or maybe not. sadly you have to wait a minute into the film before the glorious red hakama is revealed.

OH YEA!!! I am so diggin the red Gi still...

Break the wrist and walk away!

Is it just me, or does that dude have sort of a younger Martin Scorsese vibe going on?

I also love how he's dismantling uke, but still has time to look at the camera.

Over half a month in and I am actually finding I am liking it. It took me a few versions of tying it, but the hakama has a different vibe about it.

I would say it changes the feel of things, mainly by forcing me to have better posture. It looks cool. It does get mighty warm, especially with a double-weave Judo gi.