Kaze Uta Budo Kai Forum Archive

Here's a question for ya'lls... Does your "strategy" change or adapt, either in throwing or grappling, depending on the size and/or build of your partner? (For example, I am probably not going to try a hip throw on a guy a foot shorter than me and 50+ pounds heavier.) If so, how?

I was always taught coming up through the ranks that you never, ever try a sacrifice against a guy bigger than you. But in my last tournament a year or two ago, I threw an opponent 40 pounds heavier and 20 years younger for ippon with sumigaeshi.

I generally reserve hip throws for taller, lighter, lower-ranked opponents (if I have the choice)

My strategy on the ground is pretty much the same for everybody - get on top, attack the neck, go for an armbar. position-choke-armbar. But I work with so many beginners and kids that i actually have a bit of a problem shifting from positional-only frame of mind to a position-then-submission frame of mind when i work with someone older or more advanced.

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My grappling game is pretty consistent like Pat's: pin-choke-armbar. Hard to work a submission if you don't have control. Lately I just lay on my partner and crush the life out of them like an anaconda if possible. Against guys who are used to being in the guard position, I shift to holds above the shoulder line such as kami-shiho-gatame & ushiro-kesa-gatame.

For standing, you have to go to the principles. If your partner is lighter focus on throwing them forward. If they are heavier focus on throwing them backward. If they are the same size, either direction is good. I don't do hip or shoulder throws to heavier folks with lower centers of gravity. Now, a harai-goshi does occasionally sneak in but that's typically a result of extreme off-balance or their attempt to counter something like my osoto-gari.

If my partner is being resistive, then I do a lot of de-ashi-harai to get them really paranoid then toss in a hiza-guruma. Remember to step away from what you want, using body weight transfer to force uke to take a step (or fall down). Then it's off to the races.

I don't know if anyone else has ever experienced this, but I've noticed that in grappling, bigger guys are a little harder to choke (thick neck, thick everything), but oddly enough, their big, slow arms make it easier to attack the joints (arm bars). But the reverse tends to be true for smaller, more nimble guys: can't get an arm bar on a floppy noodle, but I can choke them all day long.

I too sometimes have trouble choking bigger guys, or those no neck guys like McRorie. But, even those thick necked fellows aren't immune to the baseball bat choke.

I'm not sure, but I think the reason it might be hard to choke a big guy but it's easy to armbar them, is because they have big, strong arms. Thus, when you get a position and start a choke, they just press you out of position, but that leaves them vulnerable to an armbar.

maybe.

Pat's exactly on the money, though it applies to folks other than no-necks.

The principled progression is pin -> choke -> armbar (and then back to choke). Once you set the pin, you start messing your partner's neck. He knows what is about to happen and wants to have an opinion about it, so it he pushes you out of his neck. You take advantage of those arms getting straight. He sometimes has an opinion about this, and curls his arms back in. Often enough, this pulls you right back into a choke position.

A few other things I've noticed...

• I can't usually do much to control a big guy's hips in grappling (as in yoko shiho, tate shiho gatame or even kazure kesa aka the "envelope") because of their big ol' bellies, so I end up controlling the shoulders (kesa, kame shiho and variations, mune, etc) and suffocating the head (as opposed to putting pressure on the ribs). Small, wiry guys will squirm out of just about everything eventually, but I do better if I can control all four corners (yoko shiho, tate shiho gatame).

• If big guys get on top, they'll crush me in no time. I try to avoid the bottom there. Smaller guys, though, I don't worry about being on bottom and take my time. Which means, of course, that I also try to be the "big guy" and get on top and crush the littler guys =)

• Little guys seem to be able to go all day long on the ground, so pins usually only buy me a little time to rest. Most of the time, I have to get them with a choke or an arm bar. Big guys, however, I find are much easier to wear out with a pin by itself. They may be stronger, but they also move slower and eat up more energy moving around.

• I will probably work the guard more with medium to small guys, but not with big boys.

• Little wiry guys usually need more than one limb tied up to keep them out of trouble (the straight jacket comes to mind, for example).

Nage-Waza (larger uke)

• Stick to the basics[/*:m:2nn1dst3]
  
• Limit my techniques to ashi-waza for "heavier" guys, but will include shoulder throws for taller guys.[/*:m:2nn1dst3]

Nage-Waza (same size/smaller uke)

• No Restriction in Techniques.[/*:m:2nn1dst3]
  
• Try to do every throw that I know, and play with counters here and there.[/*:m:2nn1dst3]

Katame-Waza

• Same techniques and strategy for all sizes.[/*:m:2nn1dst3]
  
• I try to work the top game a little more with larger partners, this will tend to gas them out sooner, nullifying their strength advantage.[/*:m:2nn1dst3]
  
• Partners of similar size, I am more than happy to stay on the bottom and work off my back. [/*:m:2nn1dst3]
  
• If I continue to get "stacked" working on the bottom I will transition to more turnovers and working from the top.[/*:m:2nn1dst3]

That's my $0.02

Speaking of the "pin -> choke -> armbar" progression... While I've encountered a handful of "series" style drills over the years, I don't recall one that highlights this series. Anyone know of something? (I may have seen some but am just forgetting or not realizing that it fit the criteria...)

One of the keys to success, no matter the size of the opponent is the ability to dictate the tempo of the randori/shiai - thereby focusing on your own technique and "setting the agenda...."

As part of such a strategy it is important to recognise the role that kumi-kata (i.e. gripping) plays as one of the key foundations of effective judo. Good throws start with good grips and gripping is a technical aspect of judo that is neglected at one's peril. Kumi-kata is a very effective tool in dictating the tempo of a shiai/randori - which is the key.

good point Llyr-- as modern judo has developed more of a "lay-in-wait-and-shoot-sniper vs sniper-quality" (as opposed to the old fashioned stand up and dance stuff we do) kumi kata has taken on greater strategic importance-- no doubt controling the tempo as you say is vital -- care to eleborate on setting tempo with grips? love to hear more of you thoughts.

in contrast, from my rather anachronistic perspective, i'd say that a good throw starts with good footwork, and that the main tempo i'm intersted in is the tempo of the man's foot striking the ground with every cycle of his center of gravity -- my hands gotta support the kuzushi and tsukuri that my feet and center are doing, otherwise they just create interference --noise in the transmission of energy-- a completely different stategic psychology here